Ms. Li Nanyang’s father, Li Rui, was a former secretary of Mao Zedong and a representative of the liberal wing of the Chinese Communist Party system. Li Nanyang spent several years taking Li Rui’s diaries overseas, organizing and preserving them, and eventually donating them to the Hoover Institution in the United States. Having lived in the United States for 30 years, Li Nanyang became concerned about American politics while reflecting on his father’s Life experiences and the Chinese Communist Party system.
In particular, the 2020 U.S. election has made Li Nanyang truly begin to realize that American society is dangerously headed, and that many social phenomena are very similar to those under Chinese Communist rule. She wrote an article entitled: America’s 2021 and China’s 1949, in which she wrote that she sincerely hopes that America’s 2021 will not become China’s 1949.
Why does she say that? In this episode, we ask Ms. Li Nanyang to share her experiences and reflections.
Hello Ms. Lee, thank you for the interview.
Li Nanyang: Hello Fang Fei, hello listeners and viewers, thank you for having me on this program.
Moderator: Okay, thank you, well, let’s talk about yourself first, Ms. Lee, just briefly introduce to our audience, when did you come to the United States? And what were some of your brief experiences after coming to the United States?
“I left China the year after June 4 and came to the United States with a twist.
Li Nanyang: I left China in 1990, the year after the June Fourth Incident, first to the former Soviet Union, then to West Germany and East Germany, and through East Germany to West Germany. Then he worked in Switzerland for a while, and then went to the Super Superconducting Collider in Texas. The Super Superconducting Collider was the world’s largest gas pedal project when Clinton was in power in 1994, and then it was cut by Congress. After it was cut, I found a position as a magnet engineer at Berkeley National Laboratory in California, and I worked there until 2001.
Then I went to the Linear Accelerator Center at Stanford University, still working as a magnet engineer. Then in 2009, he went back to Berkeley National Laboratory and worked there until he retired in 2014. After he retired, he retired in January and was hired as a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University in February, until August of last year, which is probably the case.
Moderator: So now you are retired?
Li Nanyang: Yes, I’m retired now.
Moderator: So you basically have almost 30 years of experience in the U.S., and basically you have been in the science and technology field, like many of those who study abroad, and you have been working on technology.
Li Nanyang: Yes, yes, yes.
Moderator: When you went abroad in 1990, did it have anything to do with the June 4 Incident in China in 1989?
Li Nanyang: Yes, very much so. In fact, I was not in China at the Time of June 4, ’89. At that time, I was seconded to the Centaline Corporation to do a development project in that area, which was actually a tourism project. Later on, because I was outside China at that time, I saw the foreign media coverage of the June Fourth Incident. Of course, it was so shocking that I couldn’t accept it at all. I felt that the Communist Party had persecuted my Family for so many years, and my father had spent 20 years in prison, but I was still full of enthusiasm and wanted to do something for the country.
But in the end, the Communist Party slaughtered the people, which I could not accept. Then I contacted an American magnet expert I knew from Belize. I said, “I don’t want to work for the Communist Party anymore, can you help me find a job in the United States. He found me a job at that time, because the collider project had just started and needed a large number of engineers and technicians, and I had expertise in this area, so the offer came quickly, and the whole family could go there. Then I got a visa for the United States in Belize.
I was going to send my husband and daughter to the country first, but I didn’t know that my father was already being fixed at that time, and I didn’t know anything about the situation in the country. Then I called my husband long distance and said, “I’ll come to the U.S. first, then you take the kids, I’ll send you the paperwork, and you take the kids to the U.S. My husband just said on the phone, “Come back to me. But then, of course, I had no choice, I can not say I go alone, the children and husband do not want, right, I did not think so serious, I thought first go back, go back to ask the situation to be clear.
As a result, once back Home, you know, my father in the Chinese Communist Party, it is the same as being fight, fight then also to be expelled from the party or something. Later, I think I was a member of the Communist Party in Belize, and I also reported my so-called reactionary words and deeds abroad to the country. Because I also participated in the demonstrations of the local Chinese, I also donated money to the students in Tiananmen Square and so on. Then I was told that I had reactionary words and deeds, and then the company began to review. I realized what the situation was.
But the company censored me, I think it was actually to give my father a list of charges. I’m a small person, not even a member of the party, what’s the point of them making me whole. I think there is no shortage of people in the Chinese Communist Party who want to investigate their daughters when their sons have problems, just like they did with Zhao Ziyang’s son. Later I quit, I said you guys like to fix who you want to fix, I do not accompany.
Moderator: and came out.
Li Nanyang: Then I resigned, I quit. Then there was no work, no work anyway, this process is quite a long story, quite a long way around. So then I had no passport or anything. Then until the full year, Chen Yun in the Central Organization Department said that Li Rui, Li Chang, Yu Guangyuan and Du Runsheng, the four civilian members of the opposition to the June Fourth Incident can not be expelled from the Party, said that if expelled, the future will have to vindicate this kind of thing to do too much, my father said to me you hurry to leave, you now hurry to apply for a passport, you can get.
Then he also said that the country has no future, the party has no future, you can go take the child away. So then we took our daughter, we took the train to Moscow, and finally came to the United States.
Moderator: Yes, so even your process of leaving the country is so tortuous, is basically in China for 40 years, in the United States for 30 years, across two systems, two cultures. Then I think it is basically for many Chinese, especially overseas Chinese to know this situation of yours, is after the death of your father, instead of the Chinese Communist Party to come to what is called the fight for Li Rui diary of such a thing, in fact he is trying to snatch away the destruction well. So after he this thing, many people learned about you.
The diary of my father was a big surprise
Please tell us quickly about the process of organizing your father’s diary, when did you start? And how long did it take? Could you give us a brief description?
Li Nanyang: I’ll briefly explain how this information came to be at the beginning. If my father was the fall of the Cultural Revolution, all this information was destroyed, it would not have been possible to save. He fell from the Lushan Conference in 1959, before the Cultural Revolution. So before the Cultural Revolution his diary, his past letters from Yan’an, letters to and from him, and so on, had all been handed over. They were dead tigers, and he was already in exile in the field during the Cultural Revolution, so no one remembered him, and these materials were kept unconsciously.
After my father was rehabilitated and reinstated, I was the one who went to get these materials, I went to get some of my father’s things at that time and returned in a sack. But then there were no letters or diaries. The first thing I did was to ask his secretary to find them. Later, in the basement of a large safe, where there is a seal, but did not say what here, or hard to pry open, pry open only to find that this is my father’s diary, and letters to and from the year, and then I retrieved.
After I got it back, I first looked through a letter that my mother wrote to my father, very romantic. I was stunned, I didn’t think my mother and my father would have such a relationship. Because in my mother’s mouth, my father is an unforgivable enemy, the two of them are incompatible. I was very young at the time, in my 20s, and I thought, “Oh, this is good material for future novels. I stuffed it all in, and then because I was busy with work and with my children, I didn’t think about these things.
Later, after we arrived in the United States, my daughter went to college, we had an empty nest, so we had more time, and it seemed that we were not as busy as we were at that time, so we thought of these things again. I asked my father, I said, “Give me those letters, I’ll sort them out for you, and then my father gave them to me.
Once I had a look at the letters, I thought, “Oh my God, it’s amazing, it’s completely different from when I was in my 20s. Just look at those letterheads, on Yan’an, some write “Yan”, on the Yan’an tabloid, some write the anti-Japanese war in the back of the English propaganda leaflet ah, think this is too vast historical material ah, and began to organize. And then this will be unstoppable. After I finished compiling my Parents‘ letters from 1938 to 1960, my father gave me the materials of his rehabilitated complaint from 1975 to 1979, and then I compiled this, and then his diary from 1946 to 1980.
But then the diary, because he started to be an official again, he went back to work as the Central Organization Department or something, some of them are more sensitive. These things are until 2002, 2002 is the beginning of the official collation, and then that part is not published again, and not published. It was until my father died, and coincidentally, when my father died in the first two days, I finished organizing his last diary, the diary of March 26, 2018. After finishing it, my father passed away two days later.
After my father’s death, I started to compile his notes on the process of following Chen Yun, the so-called Communist Party, to liberate Shenyang, but in fact to seize power from the Kuomintang. And then he participated in the agrarian reform in Hunan, to participate in the propaganda work, such some work notes. Later, until his Central Organization Department, those review the third echelon, and to go to the meeting, and the Central Committee review this, is in Zhongnanhai ah, is the Politburo meeting, they Central Organization Department they mention these lists, these things, is my father died after the beginning of the collation. Later finishing up, I still haven’t completely finished. Now then proceed to organize these videos, is my father’s oral, this he said, this video information, now do the work, is such a process.
Moderator: Yes, in fact, I think that in such a process of collation, whether from the family, or personal, or from the perspective of the whole history, you must have a lot of feelings. Especially your father, I think, as he was involved in this process, he himself also said that he had some, because if all the diaries were made public, then his own involvement in these events, or behavior, then everyone would also comment. But I think he still wanted to have a historical truth, which I think is actually quite valuable. But for yourself, because of the time, I would like to ask you to talk about what is your greatest feeling after reading this?
The Communist Party is a big dye bath, and the revolution makes them lose their humanity
Li Nanyang: First of all, what did you feel when you started to sort out the letters? I personally experienced this period after the Communist Party seized power. After I was 9 years old, my father was …… expelled from the party and later sent to prison, so I had my own understanding of the Communist Party. But for the early days of the Communist Party, I always thought it was quite remarkable, is later changed. I think that the Communist Party was still sincere in its pursuit at the beginning, and these young people who joined the revolution were also sincere.
In my mind, Yan’an was still a holy place at that time. I felt that when they were young and in Yan’an, they should still be truly revolutionary. But after seeing my parents’ diaries and letters in Yan’an, I felt that the veil of revolution was lifted. There is nothing that makes you noble if you become a communist or if you join the revolution. In fact, these communist people, including my parents, I feel particularly lack of humanity.
Just take the simplest example, my mother had a cousin who was in Chengdu. At that time, it was not possible to communicate between Yan’an and the rear of the country, that is, if Chiang Kai-shek’s occupied areas were found to have communication with Yan’an, it was life-threatening. However, this little brother in Chengdu, on behalf of my mother’s parents, is to deliver some letters to my mother, and also give my mother some money, because they do not have wages, but also rely on the back of the parents to support their lives. They often wrote in their letters that he had sent money and something else.
Later, I asked my father, I said what happened to this little brother? My father had completely forgotten about him, not remembering that there was such a non-revolutionary relative who had helped them in Yan’an. Later, I asked my aunt, who said that this little brother died soon after the liberation, after the Communists seized power. He went to Beijing to see my mother when he had a problem or something, but my mother refused very coldly and callously. It was after I saw my parents’ letters and diaries that I was very shocked, and I don’t think it’s surprising that they went that way afterwards. Because the revolution made them lose their human feelings and humanity, that was a shock to me.
And that is to say, in the process of organizing their letters, I walked through the path of my parents’ life. They did not say that the Communists were all demons and monsters, but they were really very passionate back then, and they participated in the revolution in a very pure and innocent way. But the Communist Party was really a dyed-in-the-wool, that is, Mao Zedong’s basic team had a lot of peasants, and these peasants were the first part of Yan’an, and they were the intellectuals who were added later.
After they went in, they were transformed by these people who had fallen into the grass and taken over the mountains, that is, to fight and sit in the world. Later, that is, they slowly, I think it is by this, what is called, said “spiritual pollution”, said to remove the “spiritual pollution”, they are actually by the Communist Party this big dye bath to pollute.
In the end, what can I say, as a daughter I can say, is that my father’s remarkable thing is that under such a rule, he maintained an independent personality, independent thinking, but as a person’s life, he was quite a failure, but I do not judge a hero by his success or failure. But they really did harm to themselves and to our children. I only have a junior high school Education, I have no higher education at all, because my family origin, I simply can not go to university in the country. And then, to the detriment of this country, to the detriment of this people. This is one of the major impressions I have after walking this path of their lives.
The study of China in the West is like archaeology
And I have another thought, that is, many people, especially those who study China in the West, they study China like archaeology. One case at a time, one case at a time, like digging a grave, digging a grave, digging like that. That’s why there are so many people in the universities who study the Chinese question, who study the communist state, and they are so left.
I later I think about it now, I think it is such a problem. Because later on, when I arrived at Hoover, before that, I also attended some, accompanied my father to some seminars on China in the United States. Listen to the topics of their research, for example, the study of Deng Tuo, the study of the anti-rightist struggle in Zhejiang, the study of the Cultural Revolution in the Ten Girls’ High School, the study of the road protection movement in Sichuan, he is one case by one, like an archaeology. He does not have a deep and horizontal comparison, he does not look at the development of the Communist Party from a deep perspective, so he does not compare with the Western world horizontally.
So don’t tell me, although I am not a specialized research scholar, I think that this research on history comes from the information, from the real, unadorned historical information. I think these nearly 20 years of compiling historical data have given me a longitudinal understanding of the Communist Party, that is, a longitudinal understanding of history from two vivid individual people. So I think this is a great sublimation and improvement for me personally.
And I also think that these historical materials, why he is particularly valuable, especially for people who study China in the West, it is a long history. It’s just 1938 all the way to 2018, that is, if you really look at this down, then you look at the China issue, then you’re not archaeological, not one case by one, you’re able to see clearly what was going on with the Communist Party before you associate it with what’s going on in the United States now?
Moderator: Yes. I think that this kind of access to so much information within the system to think, and is like you personally experienced a lot of things, and is a Chinese person, because reading Chinese is also very familiar, so this kind of recent Chinese history, for the Chinese Communist Party of this kind of thinking, the degree of completeness and depth should not be able to Western scholars to reach ah. And when you say that Western scholars study this kind of communist stuff like archaeology, I wonder if you think that they are not able to see the essence of it because they have not experienced it themselves, so they study these things theoretically and on paper?
Many people do it to get a PhD thesis, to get a teaching position.
Li Nanyang: I think it’s not polite to say that many people do it to get that doctoral dissertation, many people do it to get that teaching position, because they didn’t really live under the communist rule like we did. We have a particularly deep or heartfelt hatred for this system.
Moderator: Even the experience of life and death.
Li Nanyang: Yes, yes. That is to say, we study it and hope that people will understand it because we hope that we will not repeat such a tragic history. And many people in the West, especially in the present, evolved to the present, that is, the younger generation of China after the modern era, these people who study Chinese issues, I think, are more fragmented, that is, they tend to study Chinese issues or write this paper, they are more to get, that is, a professorship of tenure, he is to publish many many many articles, write many many many books. It just doesn’t look like we Chinese have this deep-seated hatred of the system. So he often looks at it with an archaeological perspective.
And you can see that Zhang Yan, Ian Johnson, who won the Pulitzer Prize, published an article a while ago about why so many Chinese elites would support Trump. Later he also interviewed me, but my words were deleted by the New York Times, not a single word was used. And later kept apologizing to me. He has lived in China longer than he did in Germany, where he was born, longer than he did in the United States, longer than he did in Canada. He has lived in China for 20 years, and he says he can’t become a Chinese, that’s why, is that everywhere he goes, people still treat him as a foreigner.
The local officials, or the folk artists who received him, or the folk people who were willing to be interviewed by him, or the Taoists or the Christians, always treated him as a foreigner.
For example, the perspective of his research is always that of a foreigner looking at the Chinese. He just can’t do the perspective of Chinese people looking at Chinese people. In fact, it was not easy for him. But I think it is because he does not have the heartfelt Chinese perspective that we have. That’s why he is a leftist.
New York Times Censored Article: Similarities between the Democratic Party and the Communist Party
Moderator: So in fact, many people, many Chinese people who came out of the Communist system, do think that many of the phenomena in the United States today are because these people have not experienced socialism and communism. So can you talk a little bit about what you just mentioned, that he interviewed you, and then those words were deleted by the New York Times, what is your main point of view?
Li Nanyang: I first said that Ian Johnson deleted my words. Well, he did not use, in fact, I think I talked about the most important sentence, I said that this Democratic Party, the Communist Party is similar, that is, he used them as saviors, not the people’s servants.
What did Trump say when he left the White House? He said, “I’m trying to bring this government back to serving the people.” “A servant of the people.” That’s very impressive. A lot of people are so critical of Trump, but I don’t think they understand the essence of Trump. Later I said this Pelosi, when she was interviewed by CNN, that Waugh said you this bailout bill, you are stuck not to pass, so many people in this owl on waiting for this day, it can not open, can not open business, what are you doing?
Later Pelosi said what I feed them, I feed them, later Ian Johnson laughed, said this Pelosi angry mad. I said you see you also said so, at that time the quoted this sentence of the Fox News Judge Jeanne, she also said so, she quoted this video, she said this Pelosi is also angry mad. I say you’re all missing the point.
How is it that the speaker of this government has become the savior of the feed people? The function of this government has completely changed, this has become a communist party. The Communist Party is the savior of the people, and the government officials of the United States are public servants who serve the people. How can she feed the people, the people feed her, the people feed her, how can she feed the people? I said how do you guys not see this, this is simply ……
Moderator: the essence of the problem.
Environmental pollution sent to China and the third world Very hypocritical
Li Nanyang: The essence of the problem, Johnson did not quote this sentence, and then give me deleted is what? I said that this globalization of yours, ah, very hypocritical. You think this environmental pollution, right? You will take a lot of this polluting industries, you get to China to do, get to the third world to do, and these things in the United States to do when you still have environmental protection, and government regulations, these people will be careful to do some environmental protection treatment and measures, right? He can’t say that just for the pursuit of profit, just huff and puff and put poison into the water. But you get this to the third world countries, the third world countries only to make money, and as a result, all the land, rivers, air in China is sold.
You’re hypocritical to pass this pollution on to the Chinese for you Americans to get something cheaper. And what you get is not necessarily good, it’s also low quality. I just gave two examples, when I had the Florida hurricane that year, that wall version (DRY WALL) imported from China were toxic, just corroded the wires.
I said you see our San Francisco Bay Bridge are called Shanghai Bridge, why? All the steel frame, all the components are sent from Shanghai. The result is not yet officially opened, all the steel all rusted, and then replaced again on the $ 7 million, and then the quality monitoring engineer, you also fired. This case has not been closed until today. In fact, I think this is really hypocritical, really very hypocritical.
Mao’s class struggle extended to the United States
Moderator: So you have actually written a lot of articles recently, and I read some of the articles you sent me, and I think what you mentioned in the articles, I think it’s really true. That is to say, from your life experience, you are particularly sensitive to what is happening in American society today, and you are very insightful, so in your article you mentioned that you think that what is happening in American society today, including the words, actions and thinking of some leftists, is actually very similar to many manifestations of Chinese Communist society and the early days of the Chinese Communist Party. I would like to ask you to talk about this and why you think so? Then give us some examples, for example, you mentioned that you think that the Black Lives Matter movement in the United States is actually very similar to the class struggle in China. Can you tell us what you think about that?
Li Nanyang: Yes, yes, yes. The first chapter of the first volume of Mao’s anthology is about class struggle, what is called class hierarchy, right? The class hierarchy in Chinese society says “Who are our enemies and who are our friends, this is the primary question of the revolution.” Right? I know this firsthand. Since I was nine years old, I’ve been classified as a dog boy. I just wasn’t a normal person, was I? By the time the Cultural Revolution came, it was even worse. I suffered from this class classification.
This class classification is actually the same as the black fate of the noble, that is, to divide people into classes or into classes or into colors. Do you want to think about Dr. Martin Luther King’s civil rights movement is Color blind, is color blind. That is, his civil rights movement did not say I am defending the interests of black people, I am defending the interests of white people, I am defending the interests of yellow people. He was saying I defend the interests of all people, which is Color blind, right!
The U.S. Constitution or ……, anyway, at least a United Nations human rights agreement first sentence: all men are created equal. Right! It doesn’t say that blacks, whites, yellows, proletariat, bourgeoisie are equal, it says that people are born equal as long as you are human. But the communist thinking is to divide people into different classes, people are not equal, and as a result it is to put the interests of some people above others.
For example, if the interests of the poor peasants are placed above the landlord class, then when the poor peasants emerge as a strong force, the life of the landlord is not a life. I look at my dad’s notes on that work and I get chills reading them. The Communist Party has killed countless people, first by itself, in the AB group, and then by itself in the early days of the Communist Party. When it came to the land reform, it was really killing people, talking about killing is not serious ah!
Later, at the beginning of the reform and opening up, the most famous case at that time was the killing of hooligans in Tianjin, that is, the grandson of Zhu De was killed by the cadres’ children. At that time, Hu Yaobang such a good person said not to kill enough to civilian anger. The word “kill” means that when you divide people into different classes and different levels of people, some people will gradually become less human. There will be a part of the people will oppress another part of the people, to deprive another part of the life.
This black life expensive you say ah! Of course not a day of cold, in the past I went to the United States to know, you can not say black people, you have to say African America, or you are racist, slave you do not have to say. But look at how many elites, how many of our Democratic Party members of Congress, can openly say Red neck Red neck. you can say white people as red neck, why can’t you say black people? This is that people and people are not equal anymore, right?
Now you are saying that black people are expensive, can you say that white people are expensive? Not only can you not say that white people’s lives are expensive, you can’t even say that everyone’s lives are expensive. Some people have lost their jobs after saying that everyone’s life is expensive, which is too much like the thinking of the Communist Party. As long as you do not put people on an equal level, you divide people into colors, different colors, different races, different classes, you are communist thinking. Because of Martin Luther King’s civil rights movement, the universal values of the West: people are people, there are no colors, there are no classes, there are no strata.
Advocating equal wealth and poverty, Yan’an strictly divided Food into three colors and clothes into several classes
Moderator: It’s true that we see a lot of phenomena in American society today. You also mentioned a similarity with the Chinese Communist Party, that is, you said you think many people on the left today, or the so-called elite, their mentality and their pursuit of this kind of equalization of wealth and poverty, or whatever, seems to be very similar to the mentality and performance of your parents when they first joined the Communist Party, right?
Li Nanyang: Yes, they imagined at that time that they wanted to equalize the rich and the poor, didn’t they? They wanted everyone to have a good life. But once they entered the Communist Party, when they arrived in Yan’an, there were three kinds of food and several kinds of clothes. Then the big stove, medium stove, small stove. The head of the children have milk to eat, can enter the nursery or hire a nanny, ordinary cadres gave birth to a child that will have to die, that really will be life.
So ordinary cadres are afraid to have a child, to have a child that woman is suffering badly. I remember that Ye Meili and his friends wrote a book, he talked about his mother’s experience in Yan’an to give birth to a child, and then his mother’s legs were crippled. After giving birth, she was in a kiln and her legs were frozen off.
Once he entered the revolution, the Communist hierarchy was taken for granted and they slowly got used to it. After they seized power, basically 90% of the people were fighting for houses, cars, and benefits. After the Cultural Revolution, and then after the comeback, it was even worse.
You see is like Pelosi, I’ll give you the simplest example, I just can’t look at it. You say you want the Democratic Party to fight for equality for all, when the Epidemic, we are not allowed to open the salon inside, you go to do hair, this is just. Finally you have to say that the owner of this salon gave you a trap, gave you a trap. You a Speaker, you are so big and powerful to oppress a small people, and finally the salon had to close down the business ah! There is no more business.
Is it not obvious that the Communist Party is oppressing the people? What kind of equality and democracy do you have? The pursuit of equality and democracy once these people into the head of that party set, is what my party is the idea, not what the people want, is what our party is going to do this on the picture.
Trump wants what the voters want, not what the Republican Party wants
I think Trump is different from these lifelong politicians, they don’t say what I want the Republican Party to do, in fact he started out as a Democrat and then he went into the Republican Party. He has been thinking about what this voter wants. He is not saying what do I want in the Republican Party? What is the philosophy of my Republican Party. He is not this, I think all his words are hypocritical when he says my party has what and what interests. You only have to look at his words and actions you can see, like Pelosi this.
Look at Biden, you’ve been a congressman for 40 years, why do you have so much wealth! You should do some research on him, how did his family get their wealth? Right! Trump is in business, his money has nothing to do with me, it’s the money he earned as a businessman. When he served the country and the people, he only took four dollars, and you don’t say anything about that. You Biden, Pelosi, your money is what we need to care about.
Because you take the public power, the money you make with the public power is what I need to care about. How much money Trump makes with his private power, with his private company, has nothing to do with me. I only know that when he was in office, he only earned four dollars, from the pockets of our taxpayers he only took out four dollars.
Moderator: In fact, I think for the Chinese, many people actually feel the same way, I think most people, they feel that American society is not right today! Whether it’s from the aspects you just mentioned, or from the recent blocking of speech by some tech companies, shutting down conservative accounts, and then censorship and so on. And then after Biden took office, the barricades started up outside the DC Congress and it was that kind of a scene again that day. It’s just that he’s really kind of unlike a democratically elected government, so a lot of people are just very worried about where America is going.
Why Biden is moving America towards socialism
But on the other hand, I find that many Americans don’t feel that way, including many Americans who voted for Biden. He doesn’t think America is moving toward socialism, or he thinks it doesn’t matter if it’s moving toward socialism! We want democratic socialism like in Northern Europe, and we’re not going to go the way of Venezuela or Cuba. What do you think of their thinking?
Li Nanyang: Let’s take the simplest example, the Green New Deal. It’s something that the Democratic Party has proposed as a good social system to eliminate pollution and so on. In fact, this Green New Deal is equivalent to this Chinese steel-making.
Moderator: Oh!
Li Nanyang: It’s a planned economy, it’s top-down! Isn’t that right? It’s top-down, it’s the same as a planned economy. It was not initiated by the private sector. The American economy is driven by the private sector, by the creativity of the private sector, not by governmental directives.
Your government’s forced directive of the Green New Deal can only be the end result of the Great Steelmaking, and it has been proven. This Obama invested 500 million to California san jose a solar panel, finally lost a fine, lost the bottom off, this mainstream media are not reported. This socialism, you say is the Chinese socialism and the Nordic socialism, this Green New Deal is very obviously socialism, but he can say I am the Nordic socialism.
When I look at Nordic socialism and Chinese socialism, some people say that China is fake socialism and Nordic socialism is true socialism. The Democratic Party in the United States is pursuing true socialism, and in my view socialism is socialism. But there is one difference between Nordic socialism and Chinese socialism, and that is because the Nordic governments that implement socialism are elected by the people, that is, the people still have a vote in their hands to bind these administrative officials. When he does things, when he achieves his great socialist goals, he is still constrained by the people.
The socialist system of the Communist Party of China, on the other hand, does not have a vote in the hands of the people, so the government can do whatever it wants to do. The essence of socialism is that the government drives society forward, and this is the same.
The difference between the Nordic socialism and the Chinese socialism is that the Nordic government is elected, but it is inevitable that the decadence will lead to economic collapse. You can listen to the personal experiences of many Chinese people living in Northern Europe, some young people living in Europe told me their own personal experiences. He said why this socialism shaking head, the Nordic really economic in step by step going downhill.
And Germany, because I kept my daughter in West Germany, and then I worked in Switzerland. And at that time, West Germany, and then back to the two Germany after the merger of Germany, that can not be compared. It was really going down, that’s what I saw with my own eyes. This is the globalization, globalization is the same as saying that the world has become one. But Europe or the United States, you can not control the affairs of Africa, you can not control the affairs of China, you can not control the affairs of Burma, you can not control the affairs of North Korea. You can’t change the nature of these countries, and you see what happens when you bring China in?
Moderator: You get changed by it.
Li Nanyang: Changed by it, it is the same as saying that it is clear water and muddy water. You want muddy water into clear water, it is muddy water, you will no longer become clear water. This I think is this advocate of socialism, is really a is not to see the place. There is another I always I can not see, I do not understand, especially so many people who oppose Trump.
Trump is serious about keeping his campaign promises
I think the most remarkable thing about Trump, he is his campaign promises, he must go to fulfill. the BBC has a list, it said Trump’s promise which to do, which to do, which to do. But where there is no not to go to do, it is not that he does not go to do, on the Congress blocked him not to let him do.
Moderator: Too much resistance.
Li Nanyang: You see the border wall is blocked by Congress to prevent him from doing it, he finally thought of it and made it. And these from I saw the little Shish, Clinton to Obama, not to mention. By the time Obama took office he said he wanted to withdraw the troops, he withdrew what he? He withdrew a few of the eight years? He in turn will have to increase troops. The people are so intolerant of a president who speaks in good faith, and so tolerant of a president who lies.
Especially if you look at Biden last October 15, the second debate is not gone? It became ABC’s Town hall, right? That is dictatorship. He said it so clearly, he said if you cannot get something by vote, you can not get it by executive order. That is dictatorship. He’s telling lies!
Moderator: But more than 40 have been signed since he took office.
Li Nanyang: How can these leftists tolerate him? Can’t tolerate a Trump who tells the truth?
Moderator: I think it’s probably because many people now have some distortion of this value and moral bottom line. So because of the time I want to ask you one last question today, Ms. Lee. It is that many people are actually very worried about this, after all, there are still many educated people in the United States. In particular, there are many people like us who came from the former communist countries, and many of them are keenly aware of the dangerous direction of the United States now. What do you think these people can do now? Many people say that we the people are the only ones who can do anything now. What do you think these people can do or should do?
Li Nanyang: I originally wanted to use my article to change the minds of some of my elite leftist friends, but I found that they were really uninspired by salt and oil. And they said I was deranged. Today I just received a friend’s, I sent him the video of Gong Xiaoxia walking along the Capitol Hill barbed wire fence. He said that is quite hard to hear, and then I found out that it is really not into the oil and salt. So I think this will be a stop, just say you want to use your reasoning, use your facts to get some leftist elites to change, this is unlikely.
But I believe Trump’s popular vote is 70 million voters, and I believe the number of those who are actually done away with is probably at least 20 million. That’s 90 million of these voters, and I think we can use our program to make people realize that this is not an election defeat, this is a life-and-death struggle, and I think it’s the final struggle.
If the election is allowed to go on like this, there is no Nordic socialist system in the United States to go on, because the Nordic socialist system is still a democratically elected government. And you can only go up by election fraud, then it is not a democratically elected government, it is by fraud and fraudulent government up, this is towards the communist party this direction.
So I think we have to support these listeners and readers who return to conservative ideas and give him a chance to watch. I think it’s particularly good to start from your own place, from your own vote and like the California County recall of Jensen. Once more than a million people all went up, I sent to many of my friends, they all said I’ve been there a long time ago, I signed a long time ago, I think we have to do this kind of thing. I think we have to do this kind of thing. It is to bring these people who want to return to the conservative philosophy of the cabinet, to mobilize it.
We all go to action will not be here to cry, here to worry about how to do, it must act. There is also to use their own pocketbook to donate money, just to donate and sponsor these people to run for office. And also actively involved in politics, on many people say do not care about politics, worry about the United States society is politics to care about you ah, you do not care about politics is the end.
Moderator: Okay, thank you very much, Ms. Li Nanyang. I think you can say that this is some very unique perspective and thinking, thank you very much for coming to share with us today! I believe that many of our viewers will also share your thoughts. I believe that many of our viewers will share your thoughts with us, and I will ask you to continue to share them with us when we have the opportunity. I’m sure there’s a lot more to come, including the U.S.-China relationship, including more social dynamics. So I think we still have to keep speaking out, so thank you very much for the interview today.
Li Nanyang: Thank you for giving me such a platform to speak, it’s hard for me to hold it in.
Moderator: Yes, yes, no problem! Okay, we hope there will be more platforms like this for people to talk, okay, thank you! We’ll see you on the next show.
Li Nanyang: Okay, bye.
Moderator: Okay, this is our special program, an interview with Ms. Li Nanyang, daughter of Li Rui, so thank you for watching, we’ll see you next time.
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