Chris Fenton, Hollywood producer and author of the book “Feeding the Chinese Dragon”. (Photo courtesy of myself)
After a few months, Chris Fenton and his memoir “Feeding the Dragon” (hereinafter referred to as “Feeding the Chinese Dragon”) have recently been under the spotlight again. This reporter therefore interviewed Fenton and asked him to share more insights on “Feeding the Chinese Dragon”.
Reporter: Mr. Fenton, it’s an honor to have you interviewed again. We saw that Radio France interviewed you earlier this month and did a lengthy report. This was widely noticed by the media, including some Chinese media outside of China, which reacted sharply to the renewed buzz about you, the former “dragon feeder” and your book “Feeding the Chinese Dragon”. Why the renewed hype a few months after the publication of your memoir?
Fenton: I’m glad you’re interviewing me again, too. I am a fan of Voice of America and believe that your mission is in the interest of the American people and the Chinese people. In fact, I have a strong connection to both the Chinese and English divisions of Voice of America.
My book, “Feeding the Chinese Dragon,” received a lot of attention after it was published, and even before. Before that, because the U.S. elections were in full swing, Trump‘s Republican Party was talking frequently about the Chinese Communist Party‘s challenge to the U.S., and Hollywood and the NBA are very high-profile industries, we were naturally a part of the discussion about U.S.-China relations. And my book was right in the middle of such a situation, like opening a hole in a wall and making everything behind the original wall visible.
After the election, U.S. domestic politics came into focus for a while, and people were more concerned about the peaceful transfer of power. After all this is done, how to deal with the Chinese Communist Party back in the spotlight, including whether the policies set by the Trump Administration should continue or will die; and what kind of advisors and officials Biden will surround himself with on the Chinese Communist Party issue, such as the Secretary of State, the person in charge of the national security agency, etc. All of this revolves around whether Biden will continue to be tough on the CCP.
Most importantly, the new crown Epidemic remains serious, and it is clear that the central idea is that the epidemic is coming from mainland China, which was originally a problem for the CCP and then became a problem for us. Moreover, we see that the CCP’s attitude remains belligerent and aggressive, including the military exercises in the South China Sea, the ban on some movies through government means, such as “Land of the Unwanted”, the rhetorical campaign against the film’s director Zhao Ting, and tesla‘s apology for criticizing the Nanchang power grid, which was later criticized as “arrogant” by Xinhua. “These phenomena have all gained media attention. It also shows that the CCP challenge has not changed over this period, and that more and more Western countries are seeing the problem more clearly. They may feel that the story in “Feeding the Chinese Dragon” is indeed being replayed in the international political arena.
The cover of the book “Feeding the Chinese Dragon,” a memoir by Hollywood producer Chris Fenton. (Photo courtesy of the author)
Reporter: I think what the U.S. and other Western countries are wandering about is how to co-exist with China in the future, whether to sing black face to the end, or to keep some degree of red face. What do you think?
Fenton: I would say that I am not a dove. If full dovishness is a 1 and full hawkishness is a 10, I’m about a 6, leaning towards hawkishness. However, I don’t want a hot war with the Chinese Communist Party, nor do I want a cold war, but rather I think our two superpowers need to figure out how to coexist.
I think we are strategic competitors at best, while knowing in our hearts that the two countries will not be friends. I’m talking about the two governments, not the two peoples. On a people level, I like mainland China a lot and have a lot of Chinese friends.
Cultural and commercial exchanges are two of the five pillars that we often talk about that we can work together on. We need to change the way we have engaged in the past to create equity for both countries, which is something that the United States and its allies need to focus on more.
I don’t think we and the CCP will see eye to eye on politics, national security and human rights, at least not in the foreseeable future. Let’s put those aside and focus on cultural and commercial exchanges and finding a way to be fair.
I believe that access to the capital markets that the Americans created for mainland China is at the root of how the CCP got to where it is today, and it is the financial markets that have fostered the CCP’s ability to compete against us. In addition, in every business, including Hollywood, we are willing to transfer technology, do joint ventures, and teach the Chinese how to do things our way, while failing to protect our own intellectual property rights, and doing all of this knowing full well that we are creating a rivalry for ourselves.
It’s worth noting that the US played out a similar script in the early 1800s, except that it was also a liberal capitalist system at the Time and some of the bad practices were individual corporate actions, not government actions. We were trying to catch up with the European industrial revolution and stole a lot of European technology and so on. One day, Europe said, hey, America, enough is enough, please stop. That was the moment when we needed to inform the Chinese Communist Party. But why hasn’t that been done? Why did we wait until a high-profile Trump took office to sound the alarm? We need to reflect.
We really should have said to the CCP much earlier, please stop. Let’s say the SEC should have said, to enter our market, you have to follow the same accounting standards as we do, just like any U.S. company; the WTO should also classify mainland China as a developed country, in short, we need to create a level playing field in every detail.
Reporter: What role do you now think “Feeding the Chinese Dragon” can play in helping the U.S. “unwind” from the Chinese Communist Party?
Fenton: I don’t want my book to be too preachy and policy-oriented, but rather to show readers how we got to where we are today, how entangled and stuck we are, and how much leverage we have to deal with China’s influence on the U.S., including the pressure their economy is putting on our businesses and industries that want to enter their markets. businesses and industries that want to enter their markets.
It occurred to me that it would be nice to get people into the story I was telling and see how I got involved and how I realized the problem many years later. I’m still guilty of not seeing that what I did at the time was harmful in the long run, and I didn’t wake up until 2019 when I saw how the anti-revision movement in Hong Kong caused the U.S. NBA to suffer a ban in mainland China. I want readers to understand that most people are doing what I did, and that’s what led to the problems we have today.
We are like a cog in a machine, focused on our own field, which is cultural and commercial exchange, without trying to intentionally sell out the soul of America and the values and interests we hold fast to, even though we are capitalist and need to make money; no one is intentionally selling out to get into the market, though of course there may be individuals who do. Most were on a mission of globalization and were doing their best to open markets because it also benefited America and world allies.
This is what drove me at the time, but over time, it turned out that the result was to fuel the unfair competition mentality of another major power. This is something that not only we need to reflect on personally, but the government needs to reflect as well.
Reporter: You mentioned that Zhao Ting, a young Chinese-American director who recently gained fame in the film industry, was criticized by the Chinese Communist Party for her comments, and her Golden Globe Award-winning film “Land of the Unwanted” was quietly canceled in mainland China. Some netizens have commented that in the future, Hollywood will not dare to use Chinese people to make movies, or will not let them get involved in Chinese themes, because you never know where you will step on a mine field. Do you think that’s the case?
Fenton: I happen to think that Hollywood should go back to the days of making good movies, making good movie and TV content, stop thinking about the Chinese Communist Party, and just make good movies and let the movie industry do a good job in the movie industry. As long as we do a good job, there will naturally be mainland Chinese consumers to consume. Now one more thing, I was also asked if we can produce something on sensitive topics for the CCP. My answer is, sure, we should do that, we should start moving more in that direction. Not only that, but we should also support all studios to act as an industry, rather than going it alone, to prevent retaliation in mainland China. Only by joining forces as an industry will we have the strength to deal with retaliation.
For the CCP, if we stick together, it is easier for the CCP to save face by backing off because the government can use a firewall to keep out content it doesn’t like. But Hollywood can take its movies to the rest of the world. We can still win.
I don’t think there is anyone in Hollywood who now sees the Chinese Communist Party and doesn’t understand the mistakes that have been made in dealing with the Chinese authorities, and also believes that they should be corrected. Although two years ago, I was somehow strangely stupid enough not to realize it.
But it’s also important to see the reality of the problem. Unlike companies like Amazon, which have no history of dealing with the Chinese Communist Party, traditional Hollywood studios have a history of dealing with the Chinese Communist Party. And, with the traditional Hollywood infrastructure now under siege from the daily changes in tech, the new crown epidemic and changing consumer tastes, the CCP continues to be a topic of conversation between studios and investors, shareholders, etc. I think that traditional studios are very reluctant to discuss what is in fact happening.
That is, Hollywood is still trying to do a great deal to get the CCP excited about our activities, including things that aren’t right. Also, Hollywood is losing markets because having trained the mainland Chinese film industry with our set, they can make the same level of films as we do with their own people. What’s more, they have become more powerful and imposing under the regulatory system.
I think that by now, Hollywood studios are recognizing this, but are afraid to admit it publicly because that would upset and worry shareholders and investors, and would lead to a change in the assessment of the studios. That is to say, if these studios take a stand against China, it will only accelerate the loss of market share.
Reporter: I noticed that your podcast is titled “Feeding the Chinese Dragon” and uses the slogan “Fenton and Ryan (the other host) go over the latest news from China”. You’re not a political figure or an academic researcher, but you’ve devoted your show to an intensive discussion of the Chinese Communist Party, do you feel like you’re on a mission?
Fenton: I have two children, the Golden Pig dragon and phoenix, who are now 14 years old. My mission and purpose is that I firmly believe that the two superpowers, the United States and China, somehow need to share the world in order for me to survive, for my children to survive, and for my grandchildren to survive.
I wish I could do something to move the two countries in a constructive direction. But I am not an expert, and although I have been to and from China countless times, I have never lived there; and although I know a lot, I know I don’t know a lot yet.
However, in my own way, I can seek to appeal to every American and tell everyone that we are all connected to the CCP. I hope to use this to get attention and to push for policy, not just at the government level, but also at the level of large corporations.
I think that the number of people who understand and are engaged means that I have to tell the story and it has to be done in an entertaining way in order for people to get it; to engage them in an everyday way, that’s my role.
I can do that to keep things simple and to have people realize that it’s not in our best interest to go to war with another superpower or to go into a cold war. But at the same time, we need to figure out a way to break out of the last 40 years, and that’s the key.
The U.S. helped build the market in Communist China. We need to make our money back and profit the CCP with values that are consistent with what the U.S. stands for and is proud of, but understanding that they may never be our friends and, frankly, may never achieve democracy; perhaps we may never build a bond of honor and shame between us, but it is necessary to correct the injustice on the playing field and give both countries new opportunities.
This can only happen if enough people understand the issues. That’s what I’m trying to do in the podcast.
Reporter: The name of your memoir, Feeding the Dragon, has made its way into your Twitter name, TheDragonFeeder, as well as your podcast name -also “Feeding the Dragon”. It seems that these two words have become your hashtag, or rather you have created a brand. Was this a deliberate push on your part, or did it just happen naturally?
Fenton: People also ask me why I tweet “The Dragon Feeder” and my answer is that I had to live with the hashtag until I could push for a change, which was to stop feeding the dragons.
I see myself as a co-conspirator in everything that’s happened and I’ve fed the dragons, but I want to change it all, even if I can only make a small difference. In fact, the brand was becoming popular.
I disclose in the book that I did have people warn me during that process that I was feeding the dragon; my wife asked me repeatedly if I really wanted to feed the beast that way, that maybe after a certain point the beast would become out of control, and I said actually this is China, maybe a red dragon. She said, ah, is to feed the red dragon. This is an interesting episode. My theme of “feeding the red dragon” is a natural evolution.
The comforting thing is that the name gives me motivation every day to move forward from behind the scenes. Of course, now we are pushing for a change in the relationship with China, pushing to make the field balanced, and it will certainly cause a bit of confusion. But when we get out of the chaos, even though China won’t be our ally, but a strategic adversary, our relationship will be a little healthier. To me, that means a better world.
It won’t be easy to do that, but it’s not impossible. I will keep fighting and resisting. Gotta try, right. I’m glad you’re doing this for Voice of America because you have an international readership and audience, and “Feed the Dragon” is a global issue that fits right in.
Now, we’re seeing Australia, the U.K. and Canada all taking action. I think the U.S. really needs to get on board as soon as possible to show a united Western front.
Reporter: Thank you, Mr. Fenton, for taking the time to give us an exclusive interview and offer thoughts on unlocking U.S.-China relations. I hope that Mr. Fenton’s children and grandchildren will live peacefully and happily in the global village.
Postscript: According to Variety, a weekly entertainment industry magazine, Fenton was the president of DMG Entertainment and the company’s general manager for North America. He is the producer or executive producer of twenty-one films that have grossed $2 billion at the worldwide box office.
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