Interview with WHO advisor Jamie Metzl by French weekly Opinion © Web
Jamie Metzl, a world-renowned geneticist, WHO consultant and close associate of US President Joe Biden, has believed from the beginning that the New Coronavirus (CCP virus) could have come from a laboratory leak, and the WHO mission’s “shocking” trip to China has convinced him that the virus came from a laboratory. Here is his interview with Jérémie André, Asia correspondent for the French weekly Opinion.
Jérémie André: What did you think when you watched the press conference given by the WHO mission in Wuhan?
Jamie Metzl: This press conference between the WHO mission and the Chinese Communist authorities is shocking and hits the bottom line! Instead of conducting a serious virus investigation, the WHO experts on mission became official Communist Party propagandists, spreading the word about the possibility of a frozen Food virus, and ruling out any lab leaks, which I’m sure was not what they had in mind before they went to China in the first place. But they were vulnerable from the start, both in the composition of the expert team and in the way the investigation was conducted in China, imposed by Beijing, and the experts did not have access to the data they needed, much less the freedom to conduct the investigation independently.
Jérémie André: But is it true that some members of the WHO panel confirmed that they had evidence of the natural origin of the virus and that they believed it was linked to the breeding and trade of wild animals?
Jamie Metzl: These are just conjectures, they are just repeating the Chinese side, since the South China seafood market sells frozen food, but the experts have been making these claims for more than a year now, and they still haven’t come up with clear evidence of a specific case of transmission of the virus from animals to humans. So, the WHO experts should in fact admit that they did not find any new evidence in China and should admit that they went to China to collect first-hand information for a more in-depth study, and that they could not investigate how they lacked the necessary data. Therefore, I think their trip to China was only to collect information, not to conduct an investigation. The mistake of the WHO experts is to take a preliminary inference as a final finding.
Jérémie André:And why did the WHO experts do this?
Jamie Metzl:I think there is a lot of psychology involved. The members of the expert panel first felt very honored to have been selected for such an important mission. They were isolated for two weeks before they were accompanied by Chinese scientists and investigated under the supervision of the Chinese Communist Party officials, and finally they were invited to a press conference, which they intended to show close cooperation with the Chinese side. And in fact, they acted with a lack of knowledge. However, this is also due to the nature of an institution like WHO, because his existence depends on its member states, WHO does not want to confront any of his member states, and his operation itself is fully dependent on its major member states. However, the WHO is aware of the problems they have with China.
Jérémie André: After leaving China, Peter Ben Embarek, head of the WHO expert group, completely changed his position from Wuhan in an interview with Science magazine, and WHO Director-General Desai Tan similarly ruled out the possibility of frozen food transmission of the virus and stressed that laboratory leaks were not ruled out, what was the reason for this?
Jamie Metzl: People in contact with WHO executives, including myself, have made it clear that the statements and positions of the WHO panel at the Wuhan press conference lacked evidence, especially with regard to the frozen food claims. This seems even more evident today. While Tandusai is to be congratulated for being able to correct his position even if he did, it must be understood that WHO is a very fragile institution. The first WHO expert mission to China was delayed for a month after the outbreak because of obstruction from Beijing, and WHO was very clear that they had problems with the Chinese government, but, in any case, China is a major international player today. The fact that Tandusai was able to correct this in Time is already a first step, the next step will be to see the content of the investigation report to be published by the panel, which must emphasize the need for an international investigation.
Jérémie André: You personally believed from the beginning that the virus could have come from a laboratory leak, without any evidence, on what arguments did you base your speculation?
Jamie Metzl: I did think from the beginning of the outbreak that the virus could have come from a laboratory leak, and I don’t think that’s a conspiracy theory. As a consultant to the WHO, a genetic researcher and an expert who knows Asia very well, I have good reason to believe in the lab leak theory. Because I know that if there was a mass infection due to coronavirus transmission, the origin of the disease would be in the bat-infested tropics of China, not in a metropolitan area like Wuhan, which has a continental climate and is very far from bats and other animals, and where no one eats bats. In addition, I know China very well, having written papers researching the ancient history of Southeast Asia, and I know that the Chinese government is a regime that cannot be trusted. For them, writing history is the backbone of their existence. in 2003, during SARS, as it was at the end of 2019, their first thought was how to cover up the facts. The government deleted all data about the laboratory and imprisoned citizen journalists who tried to spread the truth to the outside world. It is important to note that the regime in Beijing is one that continues to pay homage to Mao, who, experts agree today, starved 45 million Chinese people to death during the Great Leap Forward.
Jérémie André:How exactly would a lab leak happen?
Jamie Metzl: It is important to emphasize that the suspicion that the virus came from a laboratory leak is not an accusation that the Chinese Communist authorities deliberately committed a crime by purposefully spreading the virus to the outside world. What is unforgivable is trying to cover it up and blocking anyone from investigating. We all know today that in 2012, six miners in Yunnan, China, had a disease similar to the New Coronavirus infection and three of them died. 2013, scholars from the Wuhan Virus Laboratory went to Yunnan and collected the virus and brought it back to the lab and tested it for a gene sequence called RATG13, which is thought to be the closest virus to Sars-Cov-2. This virus is considered to be the closest virus to Sars-Cov-2. We also know that the Wuhan laboratory is engaged in gain-de-fonction research, that is, adding new functions to the virus, with the aim of increasing the ability of the coronavirus to enter human cells, which is probably why the S protein of the new coronavirus can invade human cells so easily. The purpose of similar research is not to create a biological weapon, but to study how to respond once a virus with similar functions naturally appears. How did the virus spread in Wuhan? There are several possibilities: either the researchers were infected by the virus, or the lab did not have a proper disposal site for the waste. With the Chinese Communist Party refusing to provide any official information, we can only speculate. This is a further indication of the possibility of a laboratory leak.
Jérémie André: Why is it so important to find out the source of the virus? Why can’t we stop pursuing this and focus on the outbreak?
Jamie Metzl: If a plane is real, we all agree that we have to find the cause of the real thing to enhance aviation safety. Therefore, it is important to find the real source of the virus to prevent similar outbreaks from happening again. The threat of a pandemic is real, climate change, large-scale industrial farming, etc. are all factors in a pandemic outbreak, but if it is a laboratory scientist who causes the pandemic, then it is even more important to strengthen security. We cannot afford to let a similar disaster happen again.
Jérémie André: You know President Biden very well, what do you think he will do to track down the source of the virus?
Jamie Metzl: I would suggest that the investigation could be carried out in three ways: by clearly defining the steps that must be followed for a scientific investigation of the source of the virus, which is entirely possible again within the framework of the WHO. If, as Peter Ben Embarek suggests, the WHO is unable to take charge of the investigation, then a joint investigation of democratic countries must be formed to investigate not only the source of the virus, but also the multiple aspects of the response to the outbreak. Finally, the U.S. Democrats and Republicans should follow the example of the formation of a bipartisan commission of inquiry after 9/11, whose purpose is not to hold anyone accountable, but to make the future safer.
Jérémie André: What is your comment on Peter Ben Embarek’s proposal to refer the case to the United Nations?
Jamie Metzl: It would be a great challenge for the UN, but I think it should be attempted. Of course, to do so, the UN would have to be given enough power, for example, to follow the example of what was done with nuclear weapons and with the reviewers of biological weapons. This could also strengthen the influence of the UN.
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